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In diesem Thread befinden sich 10 Posts. Er wurde 4618 mal gelesen.

Gast

We all have heard the bloody autopsy tape of Carlotte Malkin.

Dr. Ian McVay made an autopsy on Charlotte Malkin who was supposed to be dead.
He recorded the process as prescribed. In Episode „2x21 - ?“ he presents Eko the record.

According to Penyours' & 'RVTurnage the following could be heard.

Zitat:

Doctor: This is a Caucasian female. She's 161 cm, 51.3 kilos, body prepped and washed by the very lovely Valerie McTavish
Assistant: Ian, stop it
Doctor: Commencing with the post
Whisper: That's her (or) That's enough
Doctor: This is a clear case of drowning. I'll begin with a thoracic...
Charlotte Malkin: John! (screaming)
Whisper: She's alive
Whisper: How will we know
Assistant: Oh my God!
Doctor: Valerie!
Assistant: She's Alive!
Doctor: I think she's trying...
Charlotte Malkin: Let John Locke go (on)!
Whisper: She's not dead
Whisper: I found it
Doctor: Try and calm down
(Assistant screaming stop, stop)
Doctor: Valerie get... she's crying, don't just stand there do something!
Whisper: We’re sending them in (or) Let’s hear what she says

At the airport Charlotte Malkin talks to Eko and talks to him.
When she was „between the worlds“ she met Yemi and that he´s proud of Eko.

If you read the other transcripts of the whispers ( http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Whispers ) you will notice that they seem to be spoken by dead people. For example Frank Duckett or Boone.

Especially in the Episode „?“ we have a record of these voices.
The same thing happened in the movie „The Sixth Sense“.
There is a little boy who can see dead people which think they are still alive.
His psychiatrist doesn´t believe him just until he listens to old records of his previous patients who had the same „problem“. On the record he hears dead people talking.

This is based on the The Electronic Voice Phenomenon which has been discovered by Friedrich Jürgenson and has been proven by Hans Bender.

The german word/the origin is „Tonbandstimmen“ which means „audiotape-voices“.

Both were supported by Konstantin Raudive.

Raudive devised three primary methods for conducting EVP research; allowing a tape to record in a silent room, recording the static from an un-tuned radio, and recording the static of an un-tuned diode receiver.Raudive reported a confirmation of Jürgenson's results, and he also reported that there were four key characteristics that differentiated the voices captured on tape from normal speech:
Voices used a different rhythm to regular speech
Voices used a stunted "telegram-style" sentences
Voices did not obey standard grammatical rules
Recordings sometimes consisted of multiple languages
Raudive's recordings are criticized for not following a pattern consistent with intelligent communication (for example, consisting of an answer that was unrelated to a question posed by Raudive) or because they appear to be random collections of words with no overall meaning. Raudive's interpretations of his tapes were also criticized for being highly subjective in nature.
In his 1971 book, Breakthrough: An Amazing Experiment in Electronic Communication With the Dead, Raudive wrote that he conducted a controlled experiment in a shielded laboratory which was designed to block out both sound and potential interference from external sources such as television and radio signals. Raudive recorded his own voice for 18 minutes and no other sounds were made or heard. When the recordings were played back, Raudive's team claimed 200 other voices were present on the tape.

In March 2003, Scottish paranormal investigator Alexander MacRae conducted what he described as "an experiment... which has considerable importance for us all. It has importance not just for the subject it addressed, but also for the study of the paranormal, and indeed for science in general." He placed an "operator" connected to a biofeedback unit, a speech synthesizer, a radio receiver, and an audio recording device in a Faraday Cage and soundproof room, belonging to the Institute of Noetic Sciences in Petaluma, California. MacRae's methodology was to attempt to demonstrate whether any anomalous sounds recorded would be interpreted in the same way by different people. MacRae writes that he captured a number of sounds which he then isolated, enhanced, and sent to 30 e-mail correspondents who were bcc'ed so they could not communicate with each other regarding their interpretations of the EVP. MacRae offered multiple choice options to identify any commonalities in the interpretations. He did not use control signals that he believed were not EVP for his correspondents to analyze, nor did the multiple choice format allow the respondent to indicate that the recording was unintelligible or not a voice. Based on the results of his analysis, MacRae concluded that the anomalies represented distinct speech from a source that he could not explain through conventional means.
MacRae published his results in the October 2005 issue of the Journal of the Society for Psychical Research, concluding:
One's conclusion must inevitably be that even under adverse circumstances voices were received within a room screened against both em and acoustic waves under circumstances which precluded the generation of such sounds locally. It follows therefore that the means whereby these sounds occurred in the screened room must have been in some way paranormal. The ultimate verification lies in replication, of course, and it is believed that the experiment described above is fully replicable.

Explanations:

Normal:
The paranormal nature of EVP is generally rejected by those outside of the paranormal community, and a variety of explanations have been put forward by skeptics to account for recordings of alleged EVP. These include:
Interference: Certain instances of EVP, especially those recorded on devices which contain RLC circuitry, represent radio signals of voices/sounds from broadcast sources. Interference from CB Radio transmissions and wireless baby minders, or anomalies generated though cross modulation from other electronic devices, are all documented phenomena. It is even possible for circuits to resonate without any external power source by means of radio reception.
Auditory pareidolia or Apophenia: Auditory pareidolia is a condition created when the brain incorrectly interprets random patterns as being familiar patterns. In the case of EVP it could result in an observer interpreting random noise on an audio recording as being the familiar sound of a human voice. The propensity for EVP to be in a language understood well by those researching it, rather than in an unfamiliar language, has been cited as evidence of this, although those who think EVP are the voices of spirits wonder why spirits would speak in a language they do not understand. Apophenia, a related but distinct phenomenon, defined as "the spontaneous finding of connections or meaning in things which are random, unconnected or meaningless", has also been put forward as a possible explanation.
Capture errors: Anomalies created by the method used to capture EVP, such as noise generated through the over-amplification of a signal at the point of recording, is known to cause a variety of aberrations.
Processing artefacts: Artefacts created during attempts to boost the clarity of an existing recording through methods such as re-sampling, frequency isolation, and noise reduction/enhancement, until they take on qualities significantly different from those that were present in the original recording.
Hoaxes: A percentage of EVP may be hoaxes created by frauds or pranksters.

Paranormal
There is no consensus within the paranormal community as to the origins of EVP or how best to capture it. However, a number of different explanations have been put forward:
Discarnate entities: EVP is the voices of discarnate entities who communicate with the living through electronic devices. Some EVP experimenters say the sounds cannot be heard by the human ear because spirits do not have vocal chords, and instead imprint their voices on the recording media by some unknown method.
Extraterrestrial entities: EVP represents contact with "nature energies" or extraterrestrials. There is also speculation that the beings may originate from an alternate dimension and that the communications are the result of some unknown fluctuation in space and time.
Psychokinesis: EVP is created by the researcher's subconscious ability to influence matter or energy without the use of any currently known type of physical means. Some experimenters say they have received messages from a sleeping colleague and feel this may indicate that living humans are capable of creating EVP, a phenomenon which they speculate accounts for some percentage of recordings.

Sources:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Voice_Phenomenon
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Voice_Phenomenon
http://www.tonbandstimmen.de/evpmain_e.htm
http://www.gwup.org/themen/texte/tonbandstimmen/
http://www.aaevp.com/

Gast

Das, was angeblich auf dem Tape gehört worden sein soll, ist völlig hineininterpretiert.
Wenn man sich das selbst mal anhört, dann bekommt man z.B. mit, dass allein das erste "That's her (or) That's enough" einfach nur ein Geräusch ist, das entsteht, wenn man etwas hinstellt.

Gast

Ich zweifel dran, dass du das selbst gehört hast, weil man das eigentlich nur mit Audiofiltern hören kann, oder hast du echt die Tonspur selber auseinandergenommen?

Und es gibt viele viele Whispers... da find ich das Phänomen eigentlich garnichma uninteressant...

und überhaupt... warum wusste ich, dass du der erste bist, der antwortet?

Fragen über Fragen :ugly:

- Editiert von qu4d am 13.03.2007, 20:45 -

Gast

fragen über fragen, das is lost haha

Gast

Sorry qu4d, ich wollte dich nicht kränken, falls der Eindruck entstanden ist.
Und nerven wollt ich auch nicht (ich denke mal, darauf wolltest du mit deiner Frage anspielen?).

Ich hab mir schon viele Whisper-Analysen angehört, vornehmlich die bei Lost-Links hier: http://www.lostlinks.net/whispers.htm

Und wenn man sich die mal anhört, dann gibt es einige, wo man nur mit Fantasie Flüstern hört und dann welche, wo man tatsächlich eindeutig Stimmen erkennen kann.
Allerdings sind die Whisper-Transkripts immer sehr fragwürdig, weil man zwar ETWAS flüstern hört, aber nicht was gesagt wird.

Aber ich muss zugeben, dass ich die Stelle von der Obduktion zwar selbst versucht habe mit Audio-Software herauszuhören, ich aber kein Profi bin und auch sonst keine Whisper-Analyse eines Profi's angehört habe.
Hast du evtl. einen Link zu einer?

Gast

Ich lass mich doch nich so leicht kränken du kleiner Mistkäfer :ugly:

Zum Thema:
Huptforum davon is hier
http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=55358

Die nehmen das auch wirklich auseinander... sämtliche andre Audioquellen abstellen, Kanal für Kanal (es sind ja 3 bzw 6) anhören, langsamer und schneller oder rückwärts anhören etc... Da kannste noch so genau hinhören... das wird so nix

Mal n paar Zitate der Macher zum Thema Whispers:
Javier Grillo Marxauch:

Zitat:

the whispers are exactly what you hear on the screen - i know that sounds oblique, but if i told you what they were saying, then you'd know, and if i told you that they were just random noise you might not think of us as geniuses anymore!

trust me, you are seeing/hearing exactly what we want you to. kind of like the outer limits that way. we control the horizontal AND the vertical. the degree to which you want to investigate is up to you!

Zitat:

...they are relevant but not necessarily crucial to an understanding of the series...

Und von Gregg Nations:

Zitat:

Basically, none of the whispers dialogue is in the scripts. The Network Draft is an earlier draft than the green revision draft. The green pages are based on the Production Draft, which comes out after the Network Draft. So a green revision would be the latest (until of course the next revisions).

The whispers are done in post during ADR sessions, and that is done by either Damon, Carlton, the writer of the episode or another writer if they're too busy. They typically write up the ADR dialogue, we fax it over to post (they're in a different building than us), and then post will have the ADR team record it.

And honestly I have no idea why it isn't in the script. I really don't think it's because it's so top secret

Gast

Dann bin ich beruhigt.

Also diese Sachen hab ich beim 'lage auch schon gelesen, vor allem die Fragen an Gregg und Co., da die es ja wissen müssten.
Wie gesagt, ich glaube schon, dass es bestimmte eingebaute Whispers gibt oder auch anderes, wie z.B. "Only fools are enslaved by time and space" aus Room 23.

Nur meine ich, dass aufgrund dieses Hypes eben ZUVIEL in manche Audiotracks interpretiert wird.
Die Audioquellen von lostlinks sind teilweise von der gleichen Quelle, die die beim 'lage.
Und da hört man auch bei einigen (bereits bearbeiteten) was, aber bei anderen hör ich überhaupt nix außer unidentifizierbaren Geflüster.

Hast du denn zu der Obduktionsszene speziell eine Quelle zu einem Audioteil?

Gast

http://www.lostlinks.net/whispers.htm

is doch fast ganz oben

oder http://lostwhispering.blogspot.com/

Und die Messege mit only fools blabla is ja fast offensichtlich. Das hört man ja ohne Probleme.
Wie gesagt... ob die Whispers alle Stimmen, kann ich nich sagen aber ich habe keinen Grund zur Annahme, dass die gelogen sind, da mann einige der Whispers da defintiv hört.

Gast

Aaargh! Hab ich übersehen, sorry!

Hatte einfach nur mit der Suchfunktion nach "Eko" gesucht. :rolleyes:

Thx, ich hör's mir mal an.

Also ich hab mir das jetzt mal angehört.
Aber ich kann wirklich nix raushören, auch wenn ich es langsamer oder schneller ablaufen lasse.
Dass die Whisper-Übersetzer sich dabei auch etwas zu tief aus dem Fenster haben hängen lassen merkt man auch hieran:
"Whisper: We’re sending them in (or) Let’s hear what she says"

Das sind nämlich schon sehr grundsätzlich verschiedene Sätze, die sich in keinster Weise ähnlich anhören.
Da frage ich mich halt schon, ob da bei einige nicht die Fantasie mit durchgeht.

No offense, wirklich! Ich denk nur, dass auf jedenfall bei speziell DIESEM Beispiel nicht wirklich Geflüster versteckt ist.
Und falls doch, dann so sehr verzerrt, dass zu wenig Dateninformation übrig geblieben ist, um das Geflüster wieder herstellen zu können.

- Editiert von diMaggio am 13.03.2007, 22:03 -

Gast

Aber angenommen,

das mit den Stimmen auf dem Band stimmt, was haben die dann zu bedeuten ?
Und sind sie verwandt mir dem Flüstern der "Anderen" auf der Insel ?

- Editiert von Climber am 13.03.2007, 22:32 -